Australia legend RICKY PONTING talks to our man NASSER HUSSAIN about Bazball & Bairstow’s dismissal

As the Ashes heads to Headingly for the third Test of what has been a thrilling Ashes series so far, Mail Sport’s Nasser Hussain sits down with former Australia captain Ricky Ponting to discuss Bazball, Jonny Bairstow’s controversial dismissal at Lord’s and why he turned down the England job. 

On Sunday, England cricketer Jonny Bairstow wandered out of his crease assuming the ball was dead and had his stumps thrown down by Australian keeper Alex Carey.

This led to such controversy amongst fans and public figures alike as the England batter was clearly not gaining an advantage from the movement, but was still given out after Australia appealed.

The Lord’s crowd  were unhappy with the dismissal and showed their displeasure throughout as Australian captain Pat Cummins stood by the decision after his side went on to complete a thrilling 43-run win despite a remarkable hundred from Ben Stokes.

With Australia 2-0 up against England now, there are certainly plenty of talking points. 

Sitting down with former Australia cricket star Ricky Ponting, Nasser Hussain has discussed the Ashes 2023 so far, including that controversial moment.

Nasser Hussain (left) and Ricky Ponting (right) sit down to discuss the Ashes 2023

Jonny Bairstow was controversially stumped out by Australian keeper Alex Carey

Australia have taken a 2-0 lead at the Ashes, winning the 2nd Test

Nasser Hussain: There had been a lot of talk before this Ashes about England’s style and their transformation under Ben Stokes and Brendon McCullum. But Australia are 2-0 up. Did you expect that before this series?

Ricky Ponting: I knew Australia would come here well prepared for what England have been doing. We were all a bit surprised at how Australia started tactically at Edgbaston but they won so it’s hard to be critical. I was always a bit unsure whether England’s style of play would cope with the pressure put on it by Australia.

Hussain: With bat or ball?

Ponting: Well, everyone talks about Bazball as the batting side of things but all the batters are trying to do is give their bowlers more time to take wickets. And it’s an England attack that needs time to take wickets, we’ve seen that in these first two Tests. I was more concerned with how the England batting would cope with the skill and experience of the Australian bowling.

Hussain: Have you been looking at England and the way they’ve been playing in admiration or thinking, ‘Wait until you come up against this Aussie line-up’.

Ponting: A bit of both, actually. Sitting back, there has been admiration — particularly about what they did in Pakistan — but in the back of my mind I have been thinking, ‘OK, let’s see how it does stand up’.

Remember, it’s Australia and Ashes cricket. Players are never put under more pressure than in an Ashes Test and we’ve seen at times England getting a bit carried away with their style of play. They haven’t been able to adapt and adjust quickly enough to give themselves their best chance of winning games.

Hussain: Let’s go back just over a year. I know Rob Key spoke to you about the England coaching job before he gave it to McCullum and I said in Mail Sport a Stokes-Ponting partnership would be my choice because I’m a big fan of your cricket brain. You’ve said you weren’t overly interested. Is that for family reasons or because you could never be on England’s side?

Ponting: I probably wouldn’t do the England job anyway but even if it was the Australia job I would not take it. Where I am in my life right now, I’m not ready to be a full-time international coach.

I’ve got my IPL commitments that I love. I’ve got Channel Seven at home which I love and I love being here with Sky. Don’t get me wrong, I love coaching and I would love to be Australia head coach but I just haven’t got that time in my life. Just having enough work to keep me close to the game is what I’m after.

Hussain: Has anything surprised you about England so far?

Ponting: Brendon has been this sort of coach and captain wherever he’s been.

He led New Zealand this way in one-day cricket and it got them to a World Cup final. I’ve seen him coach Big Bash teams when it’s been all-out attack, every ball.

So I’ve not been surprised and I’m not surprised at the players England have picked as a result. When I watched England in Australia last time I didn’t like what I saw, especially at the top of the order. They were sitting ducks against that attack.

So I believe what Brendon has tried to achieve over the last 12 months has been trialling a style of play he thought was the best way to beat Australia. I don’t think it had anything to do with those other series. It was finding an exciting, bold style of play that was good enough to beat Australia in an Ashes.

Ponting has praised England coach Brendon McCullum for his exciting style of play

Hussain: They are two down now. If it continues to go that way and Australia win the series comfortably, does it mean Brendon has got it wrong? Or has it been worth the risk?

Ponting: It’ll be interesting how it will be received if it doesn’t go well for the rest of the series.

I was sitting at the breakfast table before the fourth day at Lord’s and I had ex-England greats coming up and saying to me, ‘We’re wasting our talent’. But all we’re hearing from inside the dressing room is how they’re bringing on all the talent. Already it’s started, and if this Ashes gets worse for England the noise will become significant.

Hussain: You mentioned you coach in the IPL. But I know how much you love Test cricket. Where are you with Tests? Can all formats live together happily?

Ponting: There’s no doubt in my mind where Test cricket sits. It’s the ultimate, the pinnacle.

I work in and call a lot of T20 but I love watching Test cricket because it’s still the greatest examination of a player.

I’m more worried than ever about Test cricket’s future, there’s no doubt about that. I’m sure you would say the same. There are more and more concerns for Test cricket, more franchise leagues popping up, and the US league is starting later this month. I’m sure if that goes well it will be the next one to really take off…

Hussain: You were a great player and great Australian captain. What do you make of Stokes the player and captain?

Ponting has praised England captain Ben Stokes (left) for changing the way England play

Ponting: I often get asked who’s the best captain I played against but unless you’re in the tent you don’t know. What I have liked is Ben and Brendon changing the way England have played and are thinking about their cricket. Whether that brings them an Ashes win remains to be seen, but I wouldn’t mind having Stokes in my team, I know that.

Hussain: How about that last day we just witnessed at Lord’s?

Ponting: It was enthralling. Amazing. I don’t think we ever saw Lord’s the way it was on Sunday. For good and bad reasons. But, again with Ben, it was a case of cometh the hour, cometh the man. He was forced to play that way again but he is able to do it. That was another amazing Ashes Test hundred but unfortunately for him and his side it wasn’t quite enough.

Hussain: These had been the friendly Ashes — at least before Sunday. Players talking and laughing with each other a lot. Are you happy with that and will it all change now?

Ponting: I wasn’t happy with them being friendly when I played! When I was captain I felt I was a custodian of Australian cricket and, if you like, protecting the mystique of the Australian cricket team.

Perhaps these guys are realising now that we’re all the same. You’re even talking to me now in the commentary box when you probably wouldn’t have done 10 years ago!

Franchise cricket has changed a lot of the atmosphere between the teams because these guys have played in the same sides around the world.

Since Pat Cummins has been the captain there’s maybe been more awareness about what everyone thinks about the way Australia play their cricket and there had to be. Wind the clock back to Cape Town (Sandpapergate) and the Australian public didn’t want anything to do with their team.

I’d like to think when I played we were pretty hard but fair, too. Whether these guys will have a beer at the end of each day’s play now, I’m not so sure.

Bairstow’s stumping caused controversy at Lord’s as the crowd turned on Australia

Hussain: And what did you think of that controversial Bairstow dismissal? You said off-air when it happened that Pat Cummins might have to re-think his appeal…

Ponting: I just thought it would be a test for Pat. I didn’t think he had to withdraw the appeal, that’s for sure. The more clarification we’ve had about the decision, the more we know the correct call was made. It has gone down as a stumping, not a run-out. That’s all you need to know. Jonny did the wrong thing and he’s paid for it by losing his wicket in an Ashes Test. It’s as simple as that. What I would say is Alex Carey is a keeper and his job is to take catches and make stumpings. The funny thing is, if you watch the replay, Jonny is still in his crease when Carey throws the ball so Australia must have been expecting it.

Hussain: Steve Smith will play his 100th Test at Headingley. Where would you rank him among Australian greats?

Ponting: If it all ended tomorrow he’d be the second-greatest batsman Australia have produced after Don Bradman. Statistically, you cannot argue with that. He’s achieving things so quickly. Even at Lord’s, he became the second-fastest in history to reach 9,000 Test runs. Quickest to 32 Test hundreds, innings-wise. It doesn’t look as though he’s slowing down. He has been a bit guarded about how long he will go on for, which is a bit strange to me. He jokes about not being able to sleep.

With the amount of hundreds he scores he should be able to sleep pretty easily, I reckon.

Hussain: We’re going back to Headingley. We were both on commentary at the end of that remarkable day there four years ago. Ben almost did it again at Lord’s on Sunday. I’m sure we will be re-running those moments from last time on Sky, your mate Justin Langer kicking the bin…

Ponting: I think Nathan Lyon took it harder than Justin to be honest with the mistake he made at the end of that game.

But we had the pleasure of calling it on TV together and I don’t think I’ve ever seen a better moment in Test cricket. To see what Ben was able to do, nine down, having to hit sixes and then to pull it off… he’s done it a few times since and he almost did it to Australia again here at Lord’s. He’s such a winner. You have to do a lot right to beat him and he’s won some Tests for England that most others wouldn’t have.

Hussain: I think you said, ‘Wow-ee Nasser’ on commentary at Leeds….

Ponting: I wish I could take that back actually…